1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:05,990 [Music] 2 00:00:11,830 --> 00:00:09,090 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 3 00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:11,840 from Australia for science and reason 4 00:00:23,180 --> 00:00:13,920 [Music] 5 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:26,310 hello and welcome to the skeptic Zone 6 00:00:34,770 --> 00:00:30,970 podcast episode number 446 for the 7th 7 00:00:38,610 --> 00:00:34,780 of May 2017 richardsaunders here with 8 00:00:40,890 --> 00:00:38,620 you from sunny sunny sunny Sydney 9 00:00:42,979 --> 00:00:40,900 Australia I don't know why sunny echoes 10 00:00:45,750 --> 00:00:42,989 but it does today it is sunny 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:45,760 there acquired in the sky looking at the 12 00:00:51,390 --> 00:00:48,370 window I don't think so it's and it's 13 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:51,400 not hot ah and it's not muggy now if 14 00:00:53,670 --> 00:00:53,170 only Sydney could be like this more 15 00:00:55,590 --> 00:00:53,680 often 16 00:00:57,930 --> 00:00:55,600 but you don't want to hear about the 17 00:00:59,939 --> 00:00:57,940 weather no maybe you do I don't know I 18 00:01:01,950 --> 00:00:59,949 get a lot of crazy listeners you want to 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:01,960 hear what's coming up on this week's 20 00:01:06,810 --> 00:01:04,650 episode of the skeptic zone interviews 21 00:01:08,850 --> 00:01:06,820 interviews yes we have lots of in it 22 00:01:10,530 --> 00:01:08,860 we'll have two two interviews we have 23 00:01:12,870 --> 00:01:10,540 we're going to kick off with an 24 00:01:16,230 --> 00:01:12,880 interview with my old buddy Michael 25 00:01:18,330 --> 00:01:16,240 Marshall from the Merseyside from the 26 00:01:20,820 --> 00:01:18,340 Liverpool skeptics man maybe more 27 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:20,830 importantly or equally as importantly 28 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:23,710 from the good thinking society he's 29 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:24,970 going to be filling us in about the 30 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:27,430 latest news over there including good 31 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:29,130 thinking's investigation into a 32 00:01:39,950 --> 00:01:34,770 despicable horrible dreadful repugnant 33 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:39,960 where's my thesaurus sir the disgraceful 34 00:01:46,950 --> 00:01:43,630 substance called black selves this is a 35 00:01:49,170 --> 00:01:46,960 very caustic appointment you put where 36 00:01:51,060 --> 00:01:49,180 you don't you don't put it on anything 37 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:51,070 don't use it but avoid it throw it away 38 00:01:59,820 --> 00:01:55,210 but people claim it can cure cancer and 39 00:02:03,210 --> 00:01:59,830 it has very nasty effects indeed it 40 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:03,220 actually burns holes in people 41 00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:04,810 it's horrible you'll hear more about 42 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:07,510 that soon with Michael Marshall and what 43 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:09,970 they have been doing about it in the UK 44 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:11,290 a lesson for us all 45 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:14,110 after that it's brouhaha from Australia 46 00:02:19,050 --> 00:02:16,690 science TV Australia Science Channel 47 00:02:21,390 --> 00:02:19,060 it's an interesting website - lots of 48 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:21,400 videos on there and this week Casey 49 00:02:28,140 --> 00:02:23,050 Harrigan is going to be telling us about 50 00:02:32,489 --> 00:02:28,150 the UK's experiment in switching off 51 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:32,499 fossil fuels for a day and it's a start 52 00:02:36,870 --> 00:02:33,940 very interesting 53 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:36,880 that's brouhaha coming up later on then 54 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:38,710 to round off this week's episode of the 55 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:40,480 skeptic zone I'm going to be chatting to 56 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:43,210 dr. Paul Doherty who has co-authored a 57 00:02:49,710 --> 00:02:46,480 book entitled mmm-hmm and then you're 58 00:02:52,860 --> 00:02:49,720 dead a scientific exploration of the 59 00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:52,870 world's most interesting ways to die 60 00:02:57,900 --> 00:02:55,000 what a strange book what a good book I 61 00:03:00,330 --> 00:02:57,910 can't put it down it's floating by me 62 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:00,340 right now it's really interesting happy 63 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:02,890 to let you in on this book tell you all 64 00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:05,020 about it with an interview with one of 65 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:07,120 the authors coming up to round off the 66 00:03:14,990 --> 00:03:11,530 show and dr. Paul Doty in fact I noticed 67 00:03:17,250 --> 00:03:15,000 is also involved with the San Francisco 68 00:03:18,810 --> 00:03:17,260 Exploratorium I'll put a link on the 69 00:03:22,140 --> 00:03:18,820 show notes if you're visiting San 70 00:03:26,130 --> 00:03:22,150 Francisco put that on the list of things 71 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:26,140 to do by all means the Alcatraz walk 72 00:03:31,890 --> 00:03:28,690 across the Golden Gate Bridge eat the 73 00:03:34,020 --> 00:03:31,900 clam chowder and the sourdough Bowl I'm 74 00:03:36,330 --> 00:03:34,030 all of the above are fantastic and but 75 00:03:38,940 --> 00:03:36,340 make sure you visit the San Francisco 76 00:03:40,890 --> 00:03:38,950 Exploratorium not far from the Ferry 77 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:40,900 Building and it was very I think was a 78 00:03:45,690 --> 00:03:42,970 good move to move it closer to the 79 00:03:48,690 --> 00:03:45,700 downtown tourist area what a fascinating 80 00:03:51,449 --> 00:03:48,700 place it is and speaking of fascinating 81 00:03:53,310 --> 00:03:51,459 things to do lots of conventions coming 82 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:53,320 up there in the latter half of this year 83 00:03:58,680 --> 00:03:57,010 I noticed in fact Michael Marshall soon 84 00:04:00,840 --> 00:03:58,690 will be telling us about QED in 85 00:04:04,470 --> 00:04:00,850 Manchester and that's the 14th or 15th 86 00:04:06,270 --> 00:04:04,480 of October we have the Northeast 87 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:06,280 Conference of science and skepticism in 88 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:08,410 New York in June late June early July 89 00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:10,510 and I'll be there can't wait for that 90 00:04:14,820 --> 00:04:11,769 looking forward to seeing everybody 91 00:04:16,740 --> 00:04:14,830 there catching up with James Randi and 92 00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:16,750 my friends the committee for skeptical 93 00:04:21,210 --> 00:04:19,150 inquiry see as I have a convention 94 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:21,220 coming up in Las Vegas and I'll be 95 00:04:26,790 --> 00:04:22,750 running a promotion for that a bit later 96 00:04:29,550 --> 00:04:26,800 on that's the 26 to the 29th of October 97 00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:29,560 and the European skeptic Congress is in 98 00:04:35,070 --> 00:04:32,110 Poland this year and that's in September 99 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:35,080 late September in the the city or the 100 00:04:42,930 --> 00:04:40,450 town of votes laughs and I think I think 101 00:04:46,500 --> 00:04:42,940 we'll be having some interviews about 102 00:04:47,010 --> 00:04:46,510 that Congress coming up soon look I will 103 00:04:50,370 --> 00:04:47,020 link 104 00:04:52,830 --> 00:04:50,380 - all those armed conventions and 105 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:52,840 whatnot in this week's show notes 106 00:04:54,990 --> 00:04:54,340 there's lots of things happening around 107 00:05:01,260 --> 00:04:55,000 the world 108 00:05:04,770 --> 00:05:01,270 I wonder if this oh excuse me hello 109 00:05:07,530 --> 00:05:04,780 hey Richard susan gerbic hi Susan great 110 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:07,540 to hear from you Wow what can I do for 111 00:05:14,070 --> 00:05:09,910 you well you know I'm beginning a talk 112 00:05:16,530 --> 00:05:14,080 in the Bay Area skeptics group and may 113 00:05:17,550 --> 00:05:16,540 11th and Berkeley California I was 114 00:05:19,770 --> 00:05:17,560 wondering if you might be able to 115 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:19,780 mention that on the show a talk on the 116 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:22,240 11th of May for the Bay Area skeptics in 117 00:05:26,700 --> 00:05:24,370 Berkeley I think I can mention that on 118 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:26,710 the show what's it about well we're 119 00:05:30,210 --> 00:05:27,970 going to be talking about getting beyond 120 00:05:32,250 --> 00:05:30,220 the choir talking about the GSO Debby 121 00:05:34,260 --> 00:05:32,260 project Wikipedia works that we've done 122 00:05:36,180 --> 00:05:34,270 that all kinds of exciting things that 123 00:05:39,150 --> 00:05:36,190 we're pointing at you know your your 124 00:05:42,660 --> 00:05:39,160 listeners are a little above the norm 125 00:05:45,630 --> 00:05:42,670 there you know really active and I think 126 00:05:47,910 --> 00:05:45,640 they really dig it well of course I'd be 127 00:05:50,250 --> 00:05:47,920 happy to Susan well where can people go 128 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:50,260 to find out more details well you can go 129 00:05:55,290 --> 00:05:53,530 to the Bay Area skeptics page the 130 00:05:56,900 --> 00:05:55,300 website you can also go to the Facebook 131 00:05:59,880 --> 00:05:56,910 page you can come to the susan gerbic 132 00:06:01,710 --> 00:05:59,890 facebook page oh heck is watch the baby 133 00:06:03,150 --> 00:06:01,720 doing a hold of it well look I'd be 134 00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:03,160 happy to do that I'll see if I can work 135 00:06:06,990 --> 00:06:04,840 in some sort of promotion on the show 136 00:06:08,970 --> 00:06:07,000 Susan great to hear from you I wish I 137 00:06:10,770 --> 00:06:08,980 could be there actually made the 11th in 138 00:06:12,990 --> 00:06:10,780 in Berkeley that would be really cool oh 139 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:13,000 well look I hope I can see you soon 140 00:06:18,030 --> 00:06:15,370 anyway oh I am really looking forward to 141 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:18,040 it I am I'm really looking forward to 142 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:21,690 seeing you the next time I see you okay 143 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:26,050 thanks Susan I record well there you go 144 00:06:31,860 --> 00:06:29,170 yeah yet another skeptical talk for you 145 00:06:34,650 --> 00:06:31,870 to enjoy and that one in in Berkeley in 146 00:06:36,420 --> 00:06:34,660 California now before we start the 147 00:06:38,910 --> 00:06:36,430 skeptics own proper with the interviews 148 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:38,920 and whatnot here's a couple of little 149 00:06:44,130 --> 00:06:42,250 clips a little segment from the recent 150 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:44,140 Sydney skeptics in the pub where we had 151 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:47,110 a chiropractor giving us a talk and it 152 00:06:57,420 --> 00:06:48,810 was 153 00:06:58,980 --> 00:06:57,430 to hear what this chiropractor had to 154 00:07:01,470 --> 00:06:58,990 say there was lots of people scratching 155 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:01,480 their heads I must admit but I took the 156 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:03,910 opportunity I took the opportunity to 157 00:07:12,330 --> 00:07:06,690 ask some pub goers and myself included 158 00:07:14,310 --> 00:07:12,340 if they'd ever been to a chiropractor it 159 00:07:16,050 --> 00:07:14,320 Sydney skeptics in the pub tonight we 160 00:07:19,050 --> 00:07:16,060 have an interesting talk it's going to 161 00:07:21,780 --> 00:07:19,060 be about chiropractic given by a 162 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:21,790 chiropractor we're not sure what to 163 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:22,510 expect 164 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:24,850 should be an interesting night but the 165 00:07:31,170 --> 00:07:26,770 question we're posing to sceptic in the 166 00:07:33,690 --> 00:07:31,180 pub others tonight is have you been to a 167 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:33,700 chiropractor and why and I'll kick off 168 00:07:38,310 --> 00:07:35,410 and I'll interview myself hello Richard 169 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:38,320 yes Richard Lee yes I have been when I 170 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:42,490 was younger due to a I've been offered 171 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:45,850 to be interviewed hi Richard 172 00:07:49,860 --> 00:07:48,730 hi hi Laura hi how are you I'm okay okay 173 00:07:52,410 --> 00:07:49,870 have you ever been to a chiropractor 174 00:07:54,450 --> 00:07:52,420 what funny you should ask yes I have yes 175 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:54,460 and what was the reason well when I was 176 00:07:59,990 --> 00:07:57,130 in school I was beaten up in the school 177 00:08:03,090 --> 00:08:00,000 guard and I had suffered with whiplash a 178 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:03,100 whiplash injury be you teaching him 179 00:08:06,060 --> 00:08:05,230 you're probably familiar with schoolyard 180 00:08:07,650 --> 00:08:06,070 fight singers 181 00:08:09,930 --> 00:08:07,660 no of course not of course not was very 182 00:08:14,580 --> 00:08:09,940 filmed so kid kid jumped on me from 183 00:08:16,740 --> 00:08:14,590 behind I was flat on my my front he was 184 00:08:18,330 --> 00:08:16,750 on my back and he grabbed my hair and 185 00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:18,340 pulled my head back and punched me in 186 00:08:22,740 --> 00:08:20,800 the face with Blache injury I've still 187 00:08:25,380 --> 00:08:22,750 got I can still feel it too this any 188 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:25,390 long story yeah then I started to get 189 00:08:31,390 --> 00:08:27,910 migraines and eventually my dad took me 190 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:31,400 to a chiropractor now this was in the 191 00:08:38,079 --> 00:08:35,810 late 70s and for a long time I thought 192 00:08:39,670 --> 00:08:38,089 that every time I had a migraine I had 193 00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:39,680 to go back to the chiropractor and 194 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:41,599 that's what I did for a long time that 195 00:08:47,769 --> 00:08:45,050 was it actually helping I don't I don't 196 00:08:49,690 --> 00:08:47,779 know I I was led to believe so at the 197 00:08:52,630 --> 00:08:49,700 time but looking back I can't honestly 198 00:08:54,970 --> 00:08:52,640 say I was that that was my impression at 199 00:08:57,090 --> 00:08:54,980 the time yeah and where it could have 200 00:09:00,190 --> 00:08:57,100 from the point of view that he was 201 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:00,200 manipulating my neck or massaging my 202 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:03,529 neck or I don't know it's really hard 203 00:09:07,990 --> 00:09:06,050 for me to say and would you ever 204 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:08,000 consider going to a chiropractor now oh 205 00:09:13,390 --> 00:09:09,890 no not with what I know now of course 206 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:13,400 not but however they do give at the same 207 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:16,130 time they probably loosen muscles during 208 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:18,290 the examination or massage or something 209 00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:19,970 like that and of course that would be a 210 00:09:27,190 --> 00:09:22,910 benefit but I would just go to a massage 211 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:27,200 place for that now yeah you know no 212 00:09:32,260 --> 00:09:30,080 that's a tzi answer yeah never been 213 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:32,270 never would accept them for research 214 00:09:36,790 --> 00:09:35,570 purposes yeah thanks for interviewing me 215 00:09:40,570 --> 00:09:36,800 oh thank you very much Richard 216 00:09:43,110 --> 00:09:40,580 thank you for your time microphone yes 217 00:09:46,540 --> 00:09:43,120 we're here with a Lethe indeed hi ELISA 218 00:09:48,340 --> 00:09:46,550 hi Richard is the big question tonight 219 00:09:50,050 --> 00:09:48,350 is have you ever been to a chiropractor 220 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:50,060 yes I did 221 00:09:57,130 --> 00:09:54,410 one when I was a child I had a weird 222 00:09:59,830 --> 00:09:57,140 sort of spasm in my shoulder and my dad 223 00:10:02,740 --> 00:09:59,840 at the time was very into 224 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:02,750 naturopathic modalities and sent me to 225 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:05,090 his chiropractor who I went to for a 226 00:10:10,750 --> 00:10:07,730 year or two I think trying to sort my 227 00:10:15,450 --> 00:10:10,760 back out and did it I don't know if it I 228 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:18,010 that's what fixed it part two the 229 00:10:21,780 --> 00:10:19,490 question is would you go again to a 230 00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:21,790 chiropractor knowing what you know now I 231 00:10:27,790 --> 00:10:25,040 would go out of curiosity and if I 232 00:10:29,110 --> 00:10:27,800 didn't have to pay a button but I 233 00:10:30,340 --> 00:10:29,120 wouldn't allow them to do the neck 234 00:10:32,410 --> 00:10:30,350 manipulations because I know how 235 00:10:35,350 --> 00:10:32,420 dangerous that would be but out of 236 00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:35,360 curiosity I might go again just to see 237 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:37,279 what it's about and what it's like in an 238 00:10:42,930 --> 00:10:41,810 investigatory I think that's a good 239 00:10:45,370 --> 00:10:42,940 answer 240 00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:45,380 so there you are a little mini segment 241 00:10:49,510 --> 00:10:46,640 there from skeptics in the pub and 242 00:10:52,060 --> 00:10:49,520 people their opinions on chiropractors 243 00:10:53,860 --> 00:10:52,070 or if they've ever and gone to 244 00:10:55,780 --> 00:10:53,870 chiropractors and we have a lot of fun 245 00:10:58,690 --> 00:10:55,790 at Sidney's skeptics in the pub it's 246 00:11:02,110 --> 00:10:58,700 very relaxed is lots of nice food and 247 00:11:03,370 --> 00:11:02,120 wine and beer flowing and generally 248 00:11:05,590 --> 00:11:03,380 people have a pretty good time and 249 00:11:08,050 --> 00:11:05,600 thanks to Lara Benham for interviewing 250 00:11:10,450 --> 00:11:08,060 me stay tuned at the end of the episode 251 00:11:11,140 --> 00:11:10,460 for another announcement from me but for 252 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:11,150 now 253 00:11:17,950 --> 00:11:16,310 interview Michael Marshall I'm going to 254 00:11:20,590 --> 00:11:17,960 run down the stairs it's not for me to 255 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:20,600 run down the stairs I think the cats are 256 00:11:25,180 --> 00:11:23,690 in the other room probably doing some 257 00:11:26,740 --> 00:11:25,190 vacuuming cleaning at the moment or 258 00:11:28,780 --> 00:11:26,750 something like that they're very helpful 259 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:28,790 those two cats and stone for me to run 260 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:31,250 downstairs open up the freezer get out 261 00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:35,330 those veggie burgers yeah veggie burgers 262 00:11:41,730 --> 00:11:38,510 and cook them up in the oven and I had a 263 00:11:44,199 --> 00:11:41,740 little bit of Tabasco sauce some toast 264 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:44,209 yes and toast a little bit of cream 265 00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:46,130 cheese on the toast the veggie burgers 266 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:50,000 on top and I think that'll do me 267 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:53,450 well I quickly do all that I hope you 268 00:12:09,470 --> 00:11:55,450 enjoy the skeptic zone 269 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:09,480 [Music] 270 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:19,240 joining me now all the way from 271 00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:21,650 Liverpool so this is come in a very long 272 00:12:26,890 --> 00:12:24,560 way this internet bouncing around the 273 00:12:29,970 --> 00:12:26,900 planet it's my old friend from the good 274 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:29,980 thinking society Michael Marshall homage 275 00:12:34,450 --> 00:12:32,510 hiya Richard lovely to be on the show 276 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:34,460 again yes it's you know what I think 277 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:36,110 it's been a huge gap since you've been 278 00:12:39,340 --> 00:12:37,850 on the show because you're on the show 279 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:39,350 quite often but I think there's been a 280 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:41,450 little bit of a day delay and I'm glad 281 00:12:46,210 --> 00:12:43,250 we can make up for that today 282 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:46,220 there's a few things that I'd like you 283 00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:48,290 to talk about in fact though you've had 284 00:12:51,790 --> 00:12:50,000 some interesting times over there 285 00:12:53,830 --> 00:12:51,800 especially with this horrible substance 286 00:12:56,350 --> 00:12:53,840 called black selves which we'll get to 287 00:12:58,900 --> 00:12:56,360 soon but before we talk about that I'd 288 00:13:00,880 --> 00:12:58,910 like to hear about this Charity 289 00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:00,890 Commission and especially if this is 290 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:03,980 news for people in the UK yeah 291 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:06,110 absolutely so we're a very interesting 292 00:13:09,940 --> 00:13:07,250 time here in the UK at the moment 293 00:13:12,070 --> 00:13:09,950 because we have the Charity Commission 294 00:13:13,270 --> 00:13:12,080 which is the the government regulator of 295 00:13:16,060 --> 00:13:13,280 charities I'm sure you have an 296 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:16,070 Australian equivalent yeah and one of 297 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:18,050 things that we sort what one things we 298 00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:20,690 spotted with good thinking was there's 299 00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:22,910 an awful lot of charities who exist 300 00:13:27,390 --> 00:13:25,310 solely or specifically for the promotion 301 00:13:30,910 --> 00:13:27,400 of alternative medicine and other 302 00:13:32,830 --> 00:13:30,920 disproven things and so I imagine it's a 303 00:13:34,570 --> 00:13:32,840 very similar position in Australia but 304 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:34,580 we've got charities that do things like 305 00:13:40,210 --> 00:13:36,610 they specifically exist to give 306 00:13:42,070 --> 00:13:40,220 homeopathy to HIV patients in Botswana 307 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:42,080 and that's a charitable purpose 308 00:13:47,050 --> 00:13:43,730 apparently Wow and we've got another 309 00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:47,060 charity that exists to facilitate cancer 310 00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:49,760 patients getting alternative cures for 311 00:13:53,710 --> 00:13:51,440 cancer getting real access to 312 00:13:55,420 --> 00:13:53,720 alternative cures like like salad like 313 00:13:59,200 --> 00:13:55,430 Gerson Therapy like many different types 314 00:14:01,150 --> 00:13:59,210 of things and so there was a blogger and 315 00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:01,160 retired chemist by the name of Les 316 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:02,720 Halles who'd spent a number of years 317 00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:05,450 making complaints to the regulator to 318 00:14:10,449 --> 00:14:07,430 say these people shouldn't be charities 319 00:14:12,820 --> 00:14:10,459 here is a charity who are whose promote 320 00:14:15,250 --> 00:14:12,830 a very dangerous substance like myself 321 00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:15,260 to somebody who is very vulnerable with 322 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:18,560 with cancer this is not a charitable 323 00:14:21,730 --> 00:14:19,970 purpose this is not in the public 324 00:14:23,050 --> 00:14:21,740 benefit because it could be a charity 325 00:14:24,850 --> 00:14:23,060 you have to demonstrate that what you're 326 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:24,860 doing is in the public benefit and he 327 00:14:27,069 --> 00:14:25,970 was arguing that these people should not 328 00:14:28,449 --> 00:14:27,079 be allowed to be you should at least be 329 00:14:30,329 --> 00:14:28,459 sanctioned by the charity's commissioner 330 00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:30,339 maybe even struck off the register and 331 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:33,230 after following those complaints up for 332 00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:34,850 a good couple of years I think it's 333 00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:36,110 three years something like that 334 00:14:40,930 --> 00:14:38,750 less value is getting nowhere so that's 335 00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:40,940 a we as good thinking said they seem to 336 00:14:45,639 --> 00:14:44,089 be a pretty serious issue I think we 337 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:45,649 thought if you're promoting 338 00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:47,690 pseudoscience you shouldn't get the the 339 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:49,550 rubber stamp of credibility from the 340 00:14:53,769 --> 00:14:51,110 government of being an official charity 341 00:14:54,940 --> 00:14:53,779 the people when you see the word charity 342 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:54,950 people think well you must be doing 343 00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:56,450 something good must be for the public 344 00:15:01,840 --> 00:14:59,360 benefit yeah you must be kind of a legit 345 00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:01,850 organization who's promoting legitimate 346 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:04,399 treatments so I think the the fact that 347 00:15:07,690 --> 00:15:06,050 these things are a charity confers them 348 00:15:09,730 --> 00:15:07,700 a credibility that they they ought to 349 00:15:11,860 --> 00:15:09,740 earn and also of course you get 350 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:11,870 significant tax breaks if your charity 351 00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:14,930 which means the charity that's out there 352 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:16,910 currently promoting anti vaccination 353 00:15:21,210 --> 00:15:19,310 information so it's called the a forget 354 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:21,220 the exact name of the the charity here 355 00:15:25,870 --> 00:15:24,050 but that charity is not just promoting 356 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:25,880 dangerous misinformation but it's doing 357 00:15:29,290 --> 00:15:27,770 so with effectively a government subsidy 358 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:29,300 because they're not having to pay tax on 359 00:15:33,370 --> 00:15:31,130 anything and then get gifted which is an 360 00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:33,380 extras of chunk on top of your donations 361 00:15:38,380 --> 00:15:35,120 that that goes to them from tax building 362 00:15:40,090 --> 00:15:38,390 so in order to try and redress this 363 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:40,100 balance we were arguing that the Charity 364 00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:41,450 Commission needs to have a firm policy 365 00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:45,649 on pseudoscience and on complementary 366 00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:48,260 alternative medicine and after a bit of 367 00:15:51,730 --> 00:15:50,630 a legal back-and-forth last year the 368 00:15:53,260 --> 00:15:51,740 Charity Commission announced they're 369 00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:53,270 going to have a big consultation in 370 00:15:58,420 --> 00:15:55,910 review as to how they handle charities 371 00:15:59,769 --> 00:15:58,430 that promote cam therapies and that 372 00:16:02,319 --> 00:15:59,779 reviews now currently open and they're 373 00:16:05,170 --> 00:16:02,329 looking for people to submit their ideas 374 00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:05,180 their opinions and to try and steer the 375 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:06,980 the consultation steer the Commission as 376 00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:08,870 to how they deal with these charities in 377 00:16:13,930 --> 00:16:11,720 future and we're really asking skeptics 378 00:16:16,780 --> 00:16:13,940 in the UK and possibly from anywhere 379 00:16:18,250 --> 00:16:16,790 else who might want to to lend their 380 00:16:20,410 --> 00:16:18,260 opinions to that to get in touch with 381 00:16:21,610 --> 00:16:20,420 the Charity Commission because we think 382 00:16:23,710 --> 00:16:21,620 this is a great opportunity for 383 00:16:26,590 --> 00:16:23,720 skeptical activism for a 384 00:16:29,079 --> 00:16:26,600 badi who's got a opinion anyway who's 385 00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:29,089 got a level of expertise or let's say 386 00:16:33,879 --> 00:16:30,800 you're if you're in health care you 387 00:16:36,309 --> 00:16:33,889 doctor if you're in the legal profession 388 00:16:38,319 --> 00:16:36,319 and you specialize in charity law or if 389 00:16:40,329 --> 00:16:38,329 you just somebody who is an everyday 390 00:16:43,119 --> 00:16:40,339 skeptic who thinks actually I don't 391 00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:43,129 think tax breaks and and credibility to 392 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:44,959 be going to organizations that promote 393 00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:46,370 things that haven't been proven to be 394 00:16:49,929 --> 00:16:48,110 true and so we're here to kind of say to 395 00:16:52,329 --> 00:16:49,939 people joining the Commission and 396 00:16:55,119 --> 00:16:52,339 sending a submission to this this review 397 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:55,129 and hopefully we can try and help steer 398 00:16:58,860 --> 00:16:57,410 this policy towards a sensible outcome I 399 00:17:02,110 --> 00:16:58,870 think there's a very good idea because 400 00:17:04,449 --> 00:17:02,120 you're right when you hear the an 401 00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,459 organization is a charity you the sort 402 00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:06,559 of you picture little bunny rabbits and 403 00:17:10,779 --> 00:17:08,900 good-hearted people and and Florence 404 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:10,789 Nightingale sort of visions don't you 405 00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:12,770 that the word charity and if they are 406 00:17:19,299 --> 00:17:16,360 flogging or peddling nonsense to people 407 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:19,309 then this is something which should be 408 00:17:24,730 --> 00:17:22,370 absolutely addressed what then what then 409 00:17:28,210 --> 00:17:24,740 can people do where can they go to find 410 00:17:30,490 --> 00:17:28,220 out more and get something done well so 411 00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:30,500 on the good thinking Society website at 412 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:33,140 good thinking Society org we've got an 413 00:17:36,669 --> 00:17:34,610 explanation of the Charity Commission 414 00:17:38,110 --> 00:17:36,679 the review generally and the reviews 415 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:38,120 looking for answers to some fairly 416 00:17:42,010 --> 00:17:39,770 specific questions they're asking about 417 00:17:43,659 --> 00:17:42,020 things like what nature of evidence what 418 00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:43,669 level of evidence should be allowed to 419 00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:46,190 establish whether cam therapies are 420 00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:49,280 beneficial and they're asking should 421 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:50,990 they accept a lower standard of evidence 422 00:17:55,090 --> 00:17:52,850 if the therapies are there to help 423 00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:55,100 people relieve symptoms rather than cure 424 00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:57,110 disease and asking sort questions in 425 00:18:00,760 --> 00:17:58,880 those kinds of areas so if you go to our 426 00:18:02,140 --> 00:18:00,770 website good thinking cited at all we've 427 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:02,150 got a guide to those questions and it 428 00:18:05,409 --> 00:18:04,130 explains how to get in touch with the 429 00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:05,419 Charity Commission and send your 430 00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:06,799 thoughts and it also kind of go through 431 00:18:11,980 --> 00:18:09,049 a few of the the points that we've made 432 00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,990 in our consultation submission and we'll 433 00:18:15,250 --> 00:18:13,280 also be publishing our submission 434 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:15,260 shortly to I think next week we'll we'll 435 00:18:18,370 --> 00:18:16,490 publish what we actually sent to the 436 00:18:20,380 --> 00:18:18,380 Charities Commission so that'll be all 437 00:18:23,409 --> 00:18:20,390 up on our website at good thinkin 438 00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:23,419 cytosol yes good thinking society dot 439 00:18:28,539 --> 00:18:26,990 org is the website and I know about the 440 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:28,549 story I want to talk about next March 441 00:18:34,090 --> 00:18:31,630 because I subscribe to the good thinking 442 00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:34,100 newsletter which comes into my inbox 443 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:36,710 regularly so I can keep up to date keep 444 00:18:38,770 --> 00:18:37,490 a tab 445 00:18:41,290 --> 00:18:38,780 on what's happening in the good things 446 00:18:44,919 --> 00:18:41,300 in society and this is a story to do 447 00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:44,929 with a horrible substance that we've 448 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:46,760 come across occasionally here in 449 00:18:52,930 --> 00:18:50,210 Australia called black selves for those 450 00:18:56,169 --> 00:18:52,940 people who don't know what it is how 451 00:18:59,799 --> 00:18:56,179 would you describe that black self yeah 452 00:19:01,570 --> 00:18:59,809 it's a herbal pointment that the 453 00:19:03,549 --> 00:19:01,580 promoters of which they'll say well this 454 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:03,559 will be a cure your cancer this will 455 00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:05,690 draw the cancer out they talked about it 456 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:07,460 being a drawing sound that it draws the 457 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:09,890 cancer out it draws toxins out to the 458 00:19:15,850 --> 00:19:12,370 surface and then they believe that those 459 00:19:17,860 --> 00:19:15,860 those cancerous tumors just come out of 460 00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:17,870 your skin in a big chunk what's actually 461 00:19:23,950 --> 00:19:21,110 happening is that the the Southland is 462 00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:23,960 highly caustic and actually burns your 463 00:19:29,380 --> 00:19:26,960 skin into this kind of big nasty scab 464 00:19:31,419 --> 00:19:29,390 and what comes off in a chunk is your 465 00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:31,429 flesh essentially so these people with a 466 00:19:36,610 --> 00:19:33,740 horrible gaping holes in their flesh 467 00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:36,620 which are then very exposed so not only 468 00:19:41,410 --> 00:19:38,960 is it hugely dangerous in the sense that 469 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:41,420 it will burn holes in your flesh and 470 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:42,530 leave you with some pretty severe 471 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:44,690 scarring and the pictures that are bound 472 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:46,010 on the internet of people having used 473 00:19:49,690 --> 00:19:48,650 black salvo are pretty gruesome but 474 00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:49,700 it'll also give you the false impression 475 00:19:54,180 --> 00:19:51,670 that you've cured your cancer and 476 00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:54,190 there's been plenty of examples 477 00:19:58,090 --> 00:19:56,000 unfortunately if people who have used 478 00:19:59,770 --> 00:19:58,100 this in order to draw their cancer out 479 00:20:01,180 --> 00:19:59,780 they've got this big chunk of their skin 480 00:20:02,290 --> 00:20:01,190 coming where they've assumed that that's 481 00:20:04,419 --> 00:20:02,300 their cancer because that's what they've 482 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:04,429 been told by the their practitioners and 483 00:20:08,260 --> 00:20:06,290 they've gone on to not get any further 484 00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:08,270 cancer treatment and of course not only 485 00:20:11,650 --> 00:20:09,440 is that going to mean that the tumors 486 00:20:14,590 --> 00:20:11,660 there but the even if black self was 487 00:20:16,210 --> 00:20:14,600 able to get rid of say skin cancer cause 488 00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:16,220 it's on the surface it's not going to 489 00:20:20,350 --> 00:20:18,320 deal with the Mostafa of the metastatic 490 00:20:21,910 --> 00:20:20,360 elements of that cancer so it could have 491 00:20:23,140 --> 00:20:21,920 spread to elsewhere in your body while 492 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:23,150 you're while people are using this 493 00:20:27,250 --> 00:20:25,250 ineffective treatment in the meantime so 494 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:27,260 it's it's dangerous on a number of 495 00:20:32,650 --> 00:20:29,710 fronts really not just for the initial 496 00:20:34,570 --> 00:20:32,660 gruesome effect it can have on your skin 497 00:20:35,950 --> 00:20:34,580 but for the underlying fact that it 498 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:35,960 doesn't deal with the fact that you have 499 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:37,970 cancer yeah it's really not a really 500 00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:41,770 nasty stuff it is and thank you for 501 00:20:45,820 --> 00:20:44,000 giving our listeners a sort of an 502 00:20:49,180 --> 00:20:45,830 overview of it I've certainly seen some 503 00:20:50,990 --> 00:20:49,190 of the horrible results of very 504 00:20:53,090 --> 00:20:51,000 unfortunate people who 505 00:20:55,820 --> 00:20:53,100 trying to you know to get rid of their 506 00:20:57,770 --> 00:20:55,830 skin cancer or what-have-you and losing 507 00:21:01,100 --> 00:20:57,780 part of their face in some situations 508 00:21:03,380 --> 00:21:01,110 and it dudes the stuff of nightmares it 509 00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,390 really is but people swear by it and 510 00:21:07,220 --> 00:21:05,280 people get almost this religious fervour 511 00:21:10,850 --> 00:21:07,230 about it but we find that about the many 512 00:21:12,170 --> 00:21:10,860 alternative treatments yeah it's 513 00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:12,180 absolutely true I mean I did actually 514 00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:15,480 see one conference in the UK a very 515 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:16,620 small conference which is promoting 516 00:21:20,510 --> 00:21:18,810 black South and various of the things 517 00:21:22,490 --> 00:21:20,520 like miracle mineral supplement and 518 00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,500 things like that and their advice to 519 00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:24,720 this one guy in the audience who said he 520 00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:26,340 had throat cancer and was still needing 521 00:21:29,150 --> 00:21:27,600 to go to hospital essentially for the 522 00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:29,160 follow-ups because you know if you have 523 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:31,320 cancer there's a reasonable chance in 524 00:21:33,650 --> 00:21:32,370 the first couple years that it might 525 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:33,660 recur and that's why they give you a 526 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:35,010 kind of a survival rate past a certain 527 00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:37,170 number of years and their advice this 528 00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:39,900 guy who had throat cancer was if you're 529 00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:41,520 going back to the hospital after you had 530 00:21:45,650 --> 00:21:44,640 the cancer operations that's only 531 00:21:48,020 --> 00:21:45,660 because the hospital want to keep you 532 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:48,030 there so they can keep using you to make 533 00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:50,370 money instead what I would recommend is 534 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:53,310 that you gargle with blacks Alvino the 535 00:21:56,780 --> 00:21:55,290 stuff that it does to people's the 536 00:21:58,010 --> 00:21:56,790 surface of people's skin is bad enough 537 00:22:00,080 --> 00:21:58,020 but I can't imagine what it'd be like 538 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:00,090 gargling with the with that stuff so 539 00:22:04,670 --> 00:22:02,730 yeah they and a huge problem I think is 540 00:22:07,580 --> 00:22:04,680 that the practitioners believe it works 541 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:07,590 it's not like they're saying take this 542 00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:10,050 stuff we know it's going to kill you at 543 00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:11,550 the end but we don't care because we're 544 00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:14,280 on scrupulous combat they really think 545 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:15,840 what they're are they're selling and 546 00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:17,610 promoting will actually cure cancer that 547 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:19,230 means they'll make these extremely 548 00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:22,170 dangerous totally extreme claims because 549 00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:23,520 they they think those claims are right 550 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:26,400 and so yeah they can leave people with 551 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:28,170 the best of intentions they can lead 552 00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:31,170 people into hugely dangerous situations 553 00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,910 and never realize what they're doing is 554 00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:35,280 is is going to put that those people's 555 00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:37,080 life attention at risk very certainly 556 00:22:42,050 --> 00:22:38,880 this is the story we've heard again and 557 00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:42,060 again over many years with all sorts of 558 00:22:46,340 --> 00:22:44,400 therapies and alternative treatments and 559 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:46,350 things like that but the good news is 560 00:22:50,660 --> 00:22:48,210 owing to the efforts of the good 561 00:22:53,810 --> 00:22:50,670 thinking society that you've managed to 562 00:22:58,180 --> 00:22:53,820 get some action taken by ER or about 563 00:23:00,680 --> 00:22:58,190 eBay yeah we did it's a fairly unusual 564 00:23:03,470 --> 00:23:00,690 circuitous route that we achieve this 565 00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:03,480 actually but happened to be solved in a 566 00:23:06,110 --> 00:23:04,620 conversation about 567 00:23:08,060 --> 00:23:06,120 selves and happened to google it to say 568 00:23:09,770 --> 00:23:08,070 oh yeah you can buy it on eBay and when 569 00:23:11,299 --> 00:23:09,780 I spotted that it was there on eBay it 570 00:23:13,940 --> 00:23:11,309 was actually being sold by someone in 571 00:23:15,140 --> 00:23:13,950 Merseyside where I live so that's that's 572 00:23:16,580 --> 00:23:15,150 interesting I didn't know where that 573 00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:16,590 person I don't know that there's someone 574 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:19,140 out there selling black south and I 575 00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:20,850 spotted that not only was this being 576 00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:23,360 sold on eBay but it had a special deal 577 00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:27,120 with a chain of high street stores for 578 00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:28,740 sort of click and Collect so rather than 579 00:23:32,270 --> 00:23:30,270 getting it delivered to your house you 580 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:32,280 can deliver to your hands good soul hmm 581 00:23:36,620 --> 00:23:34,890 I thought well this is this is adds an 582 00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:36,630 extra element to the story if you can 583 00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:37,740 pick up this incredibly dangerous 584 00:23:41,150 --> 00:23:40,140 product not just have it deliver to your 585 00:23:42,620 --> 00:23:41,160 hands because I should go into a high 586 00:23:45,980 --> 00:23:42,630 street store and pick it up this is 587 00:23:48,290 --> 00:23:45,990 bringing in a national chain Sainsbury's 588 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:48,300 in Argos we were to the mall to kind of 589 00:23:51,230 --> 00:23:50,010 recognizable brands on the high street 590 00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:51,240 they're now involved in this kind of 591 00:23:54,260 --> 00:23:52,950 story and so I ordered some is back 592 00:23:56,030 --> 00:23:54,270 south and picked it up for my local 593 00:23:57,710 --> 00:23:56,040 Argos in Liverpool with a few photos of 594 00:23:59,840 --> 00:23:57,720 me doing that and the fact that it's 595 00:24:02,660 --> 00:23:59,850 involved some high street chains meant 596 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:02,670 is the news value of this story went up 597 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:04,290 a lot more because the the newspapers 598 00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:06,330 got to say the incredibly dangerous 599 00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:08,670 cancer so-called cure that you can pick 600 00:24:12,350 --> 00:24:10,830 up from the high street and so we give 601 00:24:14,060 --> 00:24:12,360 this story to other times and actually 602 00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:14,070 ran in The Times we're including a 603 00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,590 little box out on the front page so it's 604 00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:18,240 kind of almost the front it was on the 605 00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:19,950 actual front page of The Times for the 606 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:21,120 day of one the most kind of respected 607 00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:23,250 newspapers in the country and as a 608 00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:24,780 result of the the coverage we've got in 609 00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:27,000 The Times eBay removed all the listings 610 00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,470 for black South kind of under pressure 611 00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:30,480 from the the the MHRA which is the 612 00:24:34,820 --> 00:24:32,790 regulator of medicines here in the UK so 613 00:24:36,790 --> 00:24:34,830 we're monitoring the situation at the 614 00:24:39,140 --> 00:24:36,800 moment but certainly there's no more 615 00:24:41,390 --> 00:24:39,150 listings for blacks tile from the UK I 616 00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:41,400 think it still one or two I think it's 617 00:24:44,540 --> 00:24:42,480 one from New Zealand and one from 618 00:24:46,940 --> 00:24:44,550 America that you can find but we're now 619 00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:46,950 using this story to help ensure either 620 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:49,679 keeps blacks out of listings off of it 621 00:24:52,910 --> 00:24:51,450 off eBay so people can be selling this 622 00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:52,920 stuff which means ultimately much much 623 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:55,260 harder for people who've been convinced 624 00:24:59,390 --> 00:24:56,970 that this stuff's effective to to buy 625 00:25:01,910 --> 00:24:59,400 this and potentially do serious damage 626 00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:01,920 themselves and for those people outside 627 00:25:05,950 --> 00:25:02,760 of the UK 628 00:25:08,350 --> 00:25:05,960 Marshwood what sort of store is Argos 629 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:08,360 well it's actually one of the most 630 00:25:12,860 --> 00:25:10,770 recognized brands in the in the UK but 631 00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:12,870 it's not quite as a prominent as it used 632 00:25:18,530 --> 00:25:14,880 to be so Argos is a slightly curious 633 00:25:18,770 --> 00:25:18,540 beast that it's a catalog store so you 634 00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:18,780 go 635 00:25:22,370 --> 00:25:20,430 to the shop and as catalogs there of all 636 00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:22,380 the goods that Excel and you write down 637 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:24,030 the number of the the piece that you 638 00:25:26,570 --> 00:25:25,170 want to go on by and give that to the 639 00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:26,580 people behind a counter and then they go 640 00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:27,960 off and get it so you can actually see 641 00:25:33,860 --> 00:25:30,960 any of the the products in store they're 642 00:25:36,740 --> 00:25:33,870 also in a warehouse mysteriously out 643 00:25:39,140 --> 00:25:36,750 back which was great before things that 644 00:25:41,270 --> 00:25:39,150 Amazon and eBay came along and general 645 00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:41,280 online ordering which I think undercut a 646 00:25:44,180 --> 00:25:42,600 lot of our grocers market is I don't 647 00:25:47,150 --> 00:25:44,190 have you got an equivalent to it to that 648 00:25:49,370 --> 00:25:47,160 kind of thing in in the in Australia or 649 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:49,380 anywhere else but yeah that's that's 650 00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:51,690 Argus so I think the reason that they've 651 00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:53,070 got this partnership with eBay is 652 00:25:58,730 --> 00:25:55,980 because a lot of people who are ordering 653 00:25:59,930 --> 00:25:58,740 stuff online that's the kind of that's 654 00:26:01,970 --> 00:25:59,940 the kind of custom that all of us would 655 00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:01,980 have been using previously looking for 656 00:26:06,170 --> 00:26:04,110 new ways to keep them self relevant yeah 657 00:26:07,790 --> 00:26:06,180 I don't think we have a something I 658 00:26:09,530 --> 00:26:07,800 don't think we have quite the equivalent 659 00:26:11,660 --> 00:26:09,540 here but what we do have more and more 660 00:26:13,580 --> 00:26:11,670 now is click and Collect and I've even 661 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:13,590 used that myself so I know exactly what 662 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:15,930 you mean but once again folks there's a 663 00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:18,450 full report about this whole eBay and 664 00:26:22,580 --> 00:26:20,430 black self story at good thinking 665 00:26:24,830 --> 00:26:22,590 Society org and I recommend you go there 666 00:26:26,810 --> 00:26:24,840 it's a very good it's concise 667 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:26,820 interesting report with a link to the 668 00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:29,250 the story the coverage in The Times 669 00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,500 newspaper well much people can hear 670 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:34,080 about that and a lot more things of 671 00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:37,890 course of course at QED one of the one 672 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:40,260 of the premier skeptical conventions 673 00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:42,810 anywhere in the world coming up tell us 674 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:43,910 all about it 675 00:26:48,860 --> 00:26:46,650 yeah we've released our tickets now for 676 00:26:50,420 --> 00:26:48,870 our for QED so those tickets now on sale 677 00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:50,430 I think it's the seventh year we've been 678 00:26:54,290 --> 00:26:52,470 doing QED which just uh feels 679 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:54,300 astonishing to me that we've been going 680 00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:56,490 for quite so long and have been getting 681 00:27:01,400 --> 00:26:59,520 bigger and more established every year 682 00:27:03,820 --> 00:27:01,410 so last year was the biggest one we've 683 00:27:06,170 --> 00:27:03,830 ever done and we had I think we had 666 684 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:06,180 people there we didn't do that on 685 00:27:08,510 --> 00:27:06,690 purpose 686 00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:08,520 that's just how how it turned out once 687 00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:10,260 you kind of included organizers and 688 00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:12,390 speakers and panelists and podcasts and 689 00:27:18,170 --> 00:27:15,270 all kind of stuff really but yeah we've 690 00:27:20,690 --> 00:27:18,180 announced the first seven of our 691 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:20,700 speakers so our Gorsky I'm sure people 692 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:22,170 will be very familiar with Dave Gorski 693 00:27:26,180 --> 00:27:23,970 news from science-based medicine he's 694 00:27:27,290 --> 00:27:26,190 really speaking and Simon Singh from the 695 00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:27,300 good thinking society is going to be 696 00:27:31,950 --> 00:27:29,310 demonstrating an actual world war two 697 00:27:34,170 --> 00:27:31,960 enigma machine and how that 698 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:34,180 with broken he's actually got a genuine 699 00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:36,850 machine from that was used to to break 700 00:27:41,490 --> 00:27:38,620 the enigma cord and if we talked us 701 00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:41,500 through that um we've got cabins and 702 00:27:45,660 --> 00:27:43,600 apathy who's a journalist in America who 703 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:45,670 specializes in health care and 704 00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:47,650 alternative medicine quackery kind of 705 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:49,240 stories and she's written for Forbes and 706 00:27:52,650 --> 00:27:51,310 Slate and people have that and yeah 707 00:27:55,050 --> 00:27:52,660 we've got lots of lots of different 708 00:27:57,390 --> 00:27:55,060 people really and tickets are there 709 00:27:59,310 --> 00:27:57,400 until now they're priced at 109 pounds 710 00:28:00,600 --> 00:27:59,320 for the weekend or 75 pounds if you're a 711 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:00,610 student and it's taking place in 712 00:28:05,070 --> 00:28:03,250 Manchester on the fourteenth and 713 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:05,080 fifteenth of October 714 00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:08,250 it should be fun the last QED was huge 715 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:10,900 in terms of we had the most people we've 716 00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:13,810 ever had but we're also doing uh we were 717 00:28:17,310 --> 00:28:15,550 running so many different sort of tracks 718 00:28:19,890 --> 00:28:17,320 at once so we had the main stage of 719 00:28:21,810 --> 00:28:19,900 speakers we had a second room of panels 720 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:21,820 we had a third room of podcast and a 721 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:25,210 fourth room of little workshops and they 722 00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:26,650 were in a fifth room that was a cinema 723 00:28:31,290 --> 00:28:28,750 and we had a sixth room that was Richard 724 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:31,300 wife and put on a special room of 725 00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:35,170 optical illusions and yeah it was a very 726 00:28:39,030 --> 00:28:37,630 it was a different QED and I think 727 00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:39,040 probably the most exciting QED we've 728 00:28:41,910 --> 00:28:40,630 we've had and we're looking through the 729 00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,920 same thing again so we should have all 730 00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:43,360 those different rooms rowing at once 731 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:44,980 which is a lot of stuff to do but it 732 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:46,690 means that there's always something for 733 00:28:52,260 --> 00:28:49,690 everyone and I mean I was very very 734 00:28:54,270 --> 00:28:52,270 lucky I appeared at QED two years 735 00:28:56,010 --> 00:28:54,280 running through odd series of 736 00:28:57,570 --> 00:28:56,020 circumstances I found myself in 737 00:28:58,980 --> 00:28:57,580 Manchester to you or the first one 738 00:29:00,840 --> 00:28:58,990 actually you very kindly flew me out 739 00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:00,850 which I was very very grateful for but 740 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:02,830 the next year I was in that neck of the 741 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:05,410 woods and I took part in QED once again 742 00:29:11,070 --> 00:29:07,810 both times were absolutely wonderful I 743 00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:11,080 hear nothing but good reports since then 744 00:29:14,610 --> 00:29:12,700 and I know that our very own reporter 745 00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:14,620 and president of Australian skeptics are 746 00:29:18,810 --> 00:29:16,750 on so give certainly has been to QED and 747 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:18,820 enjoys it very much you had dr. Karl 748 00:29:23,340 --> 00:29:21,490 over there it's a wonderful convention 749 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:23,350 and tickets are on sale now what's that 750 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:27,850 website Marsh its QED calm org 751 00:29:33,660 --> 00:29:30,970 just to remind everybody QED conned org 752 00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:33,670 if you're in the UK or you're near the 753 00:29:37,140 --> 00:29:36,070 UK or you're thinking of going to the UK 754 00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,150 at that time of the year 755 00:29:41,450 --> 00:29:39,520 please make this a priority you won't 756 00:29:44,299 --> 00:29:41,460 regret it it really is 757 00:29:46,340 --> 00:29:44,309 tastic convention while marche thank you 758 00:29:48,289 --> 00:29:46,350 once again fulfilling the skeptic zone 759 00:29:51,409 --> 00:29:48,299 audience in on the goings-on at the good 760 00:29:53,450 --> 00:29:51,419 thinking society again folks I recommend 761 00:29:55,490 --> 00:29:53,460 you subscribe to their newsletter it's a 762 00:29:58,130 --> 00:29:55,500 really good way to keep up with their 763 00:30:00,289 --> 00:29:58,140 investigations and as you can hear they 764 00:30:03,260 --> 00:30:00,299 really get things done so Marsh all 765 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:03,270 power to you thanks a lot Richard thanks 766 00:30:28,620 --> 00:30:05,610 wrapping the show 767 00:30:34,590 --> 00:30:31,880 hey Richard oh hi Trish hi 768 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:34,600 Wow would you like a coffee yeah thanks 769 00:30:38,220 --> 00:30:36,250 what you're working on I'm trying to 770 00:30:41,070 --> 00:30:38,230 come up with a new promo to play on the 771 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:41,080 sceptic zone who's it for the good 772 00:30:45,270 --> 00:30:42,970 thinking Society in the UK you know 773 00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:45,280 Michael Marshall Simon Singh Laura 774 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:47,230 Thomas and background oh yeah I know 775 00:30:51,290 --> 00:30:48,850 them they've been doing some great work 776 00:30:54,030 --> 00:30:51,300 investigating veterinary homeopathy 777 00:30:56,490 --> 00:30:54,040 veterinary homeopathy what you sugarpill 778 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:56,500 this for cows I know right and also 779 00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:57,490 they're looking at some of the dodgy 780 00:31:02,130 --> 00:30:59,760 medical advice given by UK chiropractors 781 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:02,140 really okay look I'll mention all that 782 00:31:07,950 --> 00:31:05,170 in the promo now their website is good 783 00:31:10,740 --> 00:31:07,960 thinking society org 784 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:10,750 and they've recently been reporting on 785 00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:12,250 the resurgence of faith healer peter 786 00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:15,190 Popoff you know right okay look thanks 787 00:31:28,290 --> 00:31:16,630 to that it gives me something good to 788 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:28,300 think about and now direct from the cafe 789 00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:30,490 at Australia's Science Channel 790 00:31:41,550 --> 00:31:39,690 Britain has said cheerio see you 791 00:31:43,380 --> 00:31:41,560 tomorrow coal powered electricity for 792 00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:43,390 the first time since the frickin 793 00:31:48,390 --> 00:31:46,510 Industrial Revolution not a day has gone 794 00:31:50,550 --> 00:31:48,400 by without firing up their coal sessions 795 00:31:53,580 --> 00:31:50,560 since they invented them in the 1800s 796 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:53,590 but Friday the 21st of April Britain was 797 00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:55,690 able to rely on clean alternatives like 798 00:31:59,550 --> 00:31:58,090 natural gas nuclear and renewables for 799 00:32:01,860 --> 00:31:59,560 24 hours 800 00:32:04,110 --> 00:32:01,870 it's the beginning of an end of an era 801 00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:04,120 no more crowded smokestacks glimpse 802 00:32:07,230 --> 00:32:05,710 through a fog of pollution as little 803 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:07,240 urchin children run around with soot on 804 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:09,490 their faces in the street this was 805 00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:11,170 possible partly because spring has 806 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:12,700 sprung in Britain that time of year 807 00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:14,290 where power demands are at their lowest 808 00:32:18,990 --> 00:32:16,960 it is kind of two steps forward one step 809 00:32:21,420 --> 00:32:19,000 back as they we're back on call the next 810 00:32:23,790 --> 00:32:21,430 day but this milestone is part of a 811 00:32:25,740 --> 00:32:23,800 long-term trend as the stretches of coal 812 00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:25,750 free power get longer and longer 813 00:32:31,950 --> 00:32:28,510 in fact Britain aims to close all coal 814 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:31,960 stations by 2025 that's so soon guys 815 00:32:36,540 --> 00:32:34,450 so we salute the motherland for showing 816 00:32:37,690 --> 00:32:36,550 Australia that a country with seven and 817 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:37,700 a half million 818 00:32:43,180 --> 00:32:40,250 us square kilometers and 37 million more 819 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:43,190 people can make a clean break from dirty 820 00:33:02,279 --> 00:32:47,809 coal for more brouhaha and Australian 821 00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:05,200 save-the-date saikhan is returning to 822 00:33:12,370 --> 00:33:09,769 Las Vegas for 2017 today you turned on 823 00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:12,380 your computer or your phone Facebook 824 00:33:17,860 --> 00:33:14,720 told you that vaccines are an evil 825 00:33:21,129 --> 00:33:17,870 government plot Twitter told you the Sun 826 00:33:22,810 --> 00:33:21,139 is revolving around a Flat Earth and the 827 00:33:25,649 --> 00:33:22,820 House Science Committee told you that 828 00:33:30,509 --> 00:33:25,659 climate change is nothing to worry about 829 00:33:32,980 --> 00:33:30,519 meanwhile up is down true is false 830 00:33:36,639 --> 00:33:32,990 Oceania has always been at war with 831 00:33:40,210 --> 00:33:36,649 Eastasia and dogs and cats may in fact 832 00:33:43,810 --> 00:33:40,220 be living together enough already it's 833 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:43,820 time once again for the forces of reason 834 00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:46,370 and science to come together time for 835 00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:48,769 critical thinkers to connect learn from 836 00:33:54,879 --> 00:33:51,529 each other and sharpen their skills time 837 00:33:57,519 --> 00:33:54,889 for the leading lights of skepticism to 838 00:34:01,509 --> 00:33:57,529 share their wisdom and to rally the 839 00:34:04,420 --> 00:34:01,519 troops it's time for saikhan 2017 back 840 00:34:10,970 --> 00:34:07,900 October the 26th to the 29th joined 841 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:10,980 luminaries such as James the amazing 842 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:14,370 Randi Richard Dawkins Eugenie Scott the 843 00:34:20,330 --> 00:34:17,490 skeptics guide to the universe susan 844 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:20,340 gerbic Harriet Hall Richard Wiseman 845 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:25,050 Carrie papi Joe Nickell and many many 846 00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:27,810 more the master of ceremonies is none 847 00:34:32,570 --> 00:34:30,480 other than George her up for the biggest 848 00:34:35,150 --> 00:34:32,580 skeptics event of the year returning 849 00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:35,160 triumphantly to the Excalibur Hotel and 850 00:34:40,850 --> 00:34:37,500 Casino in Las Vegas the city of 851 00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:40,860 illusions saikhan 2017 will be packed 852 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:43,350 with fascinating talks and presentations 853 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:46,170 dazzling entertainment and fun social 854 00:34:51,980 --> 00:34:49,410 events with fellow skeptics this October 855 00:34:54,220 --> 00:34:51,990 getaway from fake news and conspiracy 856 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:54,230 theories filling up your news feeds at 857 00:35:02,720 --> 00:34:58,490 saikhan 2017 your alternative to 858 00:35:11,330 --> 00:35:02,730 alternative facts for more information 859 00:35:11,340 --> 00:35:25,870 [Music] 860 00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,730 now folks are just a little while ago I 861 00:35:33,620 --> 00:35:31,440 was very lucky enough to receive a book 862 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:33,630 for review from our friends at Allen & 863 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:35,970 Unwin and they produce many fine science 864 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:38,970 books and this one's pretty unusual I 865 00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:41,130 didn't know what the thing about it when 866 00:35:45,050 --> 00:35:42,660 I opened up the package and I saw the 867 00:35:47,870 --> 00:35:45,060 title of the book it's called and then 868 00:35:50,540 --> 00:35:47,880 you're dead a scientific exploration of 869 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:50,550 the world's most interesting ways to die 870 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:53,610 by Cody Cassidy and Paul Dodie and I 871 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:56,010 thought what what sort of a book is this 872 00:35:59,630 --> 00:35:57,450 but it didn't take me long to flip 873 00:36:02,870 --> 00:35:59,640 through and start reading it to discover 874 00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:02,880 that it does tackle a very strange 875 00:36:08,330 --> 00:36:04,920 subject but it does it so well in good 876 00:36:09,950 --> 00:36:08,340 scientific terms and I'm lucky enough to 877 00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:09,960 have with me from the bay area one of 878 00:36:15,830 --> 00:36:13,440 the authors of the book dr. Paul Doty 879 00:36:17,870 --> 00:36:15,840 hello hello and thank you for having me 880 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:17,880 on my pleasure my pleasure especially 881 00:36:24,110 --> 00:36:20,970 after reading this this fascinatingly 882 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:24,120 strange McCobb in a sort of a way book 883 00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:27,570 about all the interesting ways to die 884 00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:30,660 many topics covered and I will say the 885 00:36:35,930 --> 00:36:32,640 book is I quite like the fact that the 886 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:35,940 book is in tiny little tiny chapters of 887 00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:38,730 four or five pages each let's get to the 888 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:39,150 beginning 889 00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:41,730 what on earth motivated you and your 890 00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:44,250 co-author to write such a book well Cody 891 00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:46,560 came up with the idea for the book he 892 00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:49,200 had been reading sebastien youngest book 893 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:51,990 the perfect storm and he noted in there 894 00:36:58,190 --> 00:36:55,050 this incredibly detailed description of 895 00:37:00,830 --> 00:36:58,200 how you die by drowning and he thought 896 00:37:03,980 --> 00:37:00,840 that was really interesting I wonder 897 00:37:08,210 --> 00:37:03,990 what the science is behind other ways to 898 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:08,220 die and so he called me up as his 899 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:11,610 scientist friend and said hey do you 900 00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:13,410 think we could get together and come up 901 00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,030 with ideas and really look at the 902 00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,760 science behind the world's most 903 00:37:23,060 --> 00:37:19,440 interesting ways to die 904 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:23,070 and that's true because I would have 905 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:25,170 thought just looking at the title you 906 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:27,570 might be discussing some ways some 907 00:37:32,170 --> 00:37:29,490 people have died and moving on but no 908 00:37:34,059 --> 00:37:32,180 you actually go into the science 909 00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:34,069 we'll just pick a couple of the topics 910 00:37:38,109 --> 00:37:35,240 at random some of the ones that I 911 00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:38,119 particularly loved to read about there's 912 00:37:41,170 --> 00:37:39,529 a whole chapter there when I say a 913 00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:41,180 chapter it's a mini chapter it's a 914 00:37:46,269 --> 00:37:44,000 section of the book about time travel 915 00:37:48,279 --> 00:37:46,279 and I thought what what what how does 916 00:37:50,650 --> 00:37:48,289 that work but of course what you do is 917 00:37:53,260 --> 00:37:50,660 you suppose we jumped into a time 918 00:37:55,150 --> 00:37:53,270 machine and landed some billions of 919 00:37:57,819 --> 00:37:55,160 years ago then some millions of years 920 00:37:59,260 --> 00:37:57,829 ago and the science behind that not the 921 00:38:01,480 --> 00:37:59,270 time travel we don't know how that works 922 00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:01,490 but what you would expect when you 923 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:03,920 arrived is quite interesting yeah so you 924 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:06,770 know we don't realize how nice a place 925 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:09,770 the earth is right now and if you go 926 00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:13,250 back a couple billion years or actually 927 00:38:17,769 --> 00:38:15,049 let's go back to the more closer the 928 00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:17,779 beginning four billion years there's the 929 00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:19,940 earth has an atmosphere but it doesn't 930 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:23,420 have any oxygen in it and then a couple 931 00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:26,690 billion years ago if you go then well it 932 00:38:31,180 --> 00:38:29,359 turns out one of the greatest pollution 933 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:31,190 events in the history of the world 934 00:38:39,039 --> 00:38:34,130 happens now get this can you imagine an 935 00:38:42,130 --> 00:38:39,049 organism creating a gas and ejecting the 936 00:38:44,670 --> 00:38:42,140 gas into the atmosphere that kills every 937 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:44,680 other organism on earth hmm well 938 00:38:50,829 --> 00:38:47,930 blue-green algae did that they actually 939 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:50,839 created this waste product called oxygen 940 00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:53,690 and put it into the atmosphere and and 941 00:38:58,480 --> 00:38:55,520 most of the organisms in fact all the 942 00:39:01,210 --> 00:38:58,490 other organisms were anaerobic oxygen 943 00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:01,220 killed them so this organism produced a 944 00:39:06,130 --> 00:39:03,470 waste gas that then killed almost 945 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:06,140 everything else now of course we if we 946 00:39:10,779 --> 00:39:07,970 went back to that time period would have 947 00:39:12,190 --> 00:39:10,789 some oxygen to breathe the only thing 948 00:39:13,930 --> 00:39:12,200 there was to eat this blue-green algae 949 00:39:16,870 --> 00:39:13,940 so it probably gets a little bit boring 950 00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:16,880 yeah and no land plants the land is just 951 00:39:22,450 --> 00:39:20,480 barren so not not not an interesting 952 00:39:24,549 --> 00:39:22,460 time but at least you could breathe and 953 00:39:28,210 --> 00:39:24,559 and then we said well how about a 954 00:39:31,059 --> 00:39:28,220 hundred and fifty million years ago well 955 00:39:34,930 --> 00:39:31,069 there were dinosaurs around and that'd 956 00:39:38,260 --> 00:39:34,940 be so cool except you're way down from 957 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:38,270 the top of the food chain I mean you you 958 00:39:44,410 --> 00:39:40,130 are lunch is what we call you at that 959 00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:44,420 time so but finally some time after the 960 00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:45,680 dinosaurs get a limb 961 00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:49,609 by the impact the the meteorite impact 962 00:39:56,109 --> 00:39:53,569 then it's probably a disc air this food 963 00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,119 we're doing pretty well 964 00:40:01,930 --> 00:39:58,880 if you jump a billion years into the 965 00:40:05,170 --> 00:40:01,940 future the Sun has swollen up and gotten 966 00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:05,180 water and it has evaporated all the 967 00:40:09,339 --> 00:40:08,089 oceans on earth so then you even though 968 00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:09,349 there might still be oxygen around 969 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:12,200 there's no water so you're in deep 970 00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:14,450 trouble so Ian live in this little 971 00:40:19,930 --> 00:40:18,230 billion year plus interval in which the 972 00:40:23,710 --> 00:40:19,940 earth is habitable so we're kind of 973 00:40:25,210 --> 00:40:23,720 lucky indeed we are and and it didn't 974 00:40:27,309 --> 00:40:25,220 quite occurred to me because the the 975 00:40:28,839 --> 00:40:27,319 romance of time travel is something like 976 00:40:30,940 --> 00:40:28,849 you see in Doctor Who or the other 977 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:30,950 movies where people go back to an 978 00:40:36,490 --> 00:40:33,650 earlier period in human history or you 979 00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:36,500 know not not too far either way but 980 00:40:39,849 --> 00:40:38,480 you're right for most of the existence 981 00:40:41,849 --> 00:40:39,859 of the earth you'd have a lot of trouble 982 00:40:44,859 --> 00:40:41,859 if you stepped out of the time machine 983 00:40:48,609 --> 00:40:44,869 you betcha in fact the universe is 984 00:40:50,829 --> 00:40:48,619 uniformly deadly to humans and you can't 985 00:40:53,530 --> 00:40:50,839 hardly even conceive of a place you 986 00:40:55,030 --> 00:40:53,540 could go anywhere in space and time I'll 987 00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:55,040 let you I'm not only let you search 988 00:40:58,329 --> 00:40:56,480 through all of space all I search 989 00:41:00,190 --> 00:40:58,339 through all of time if that the 990 00:41:02,109 --> 00:41:00,200 probability of finding a place where you 991 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:02,119 can survive for more than four minutes 992 00:41:08,049 --> 00:41:06,170 it's like really unlikely yeah I'm glad 993 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:08,059 I'm glad we're here actually I'm glad to 994 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:10,970 here look other topics in the book what 995 00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:13,010 if he skydive from outer space what if 996 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:14,720 you jumped into a black hole what would 997 00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:16,130 happen to your body then what if you 998 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:19,760 just stayed in bed bizarre things like 999 00:41:23,799 --> 00:41:21,130 what if you were swallowed by a whale 1000 00:41:26,770 --> 00:41:23,809 there's quite a lot of content in the 1001 00:41:28,510 --> 00:41:26,780 book one of my other favorites was you 1002 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:28,520 theorized well what would happen if you 1003 00:41:32,410 --> 00:41:30,770 travel to Jupiter the planet Jupiter and 1004 00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:32,420 yeah oh that would be great the view 1005 00:41:36,849 --> 00:41:34,640 would be amazing but that is absolutely 1006 00:41:39,250 --> 00:41:36,859 one of the most dangerous things you 1007 00:41:43,539 --> 00:41:39,260 could could possibly do yeah in fact we 1008 00:41:46,420 --> 00:41:43,549 dropped a exploration satellite the 1009 00:41:48,819 --> 00:41:46,430 Galileo probe into Jupiter so we have 1010 00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:48,829 some pretty good data about what happens 1011 00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:52,640 so you drop into Jupiter and you'll see 1012 00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:55,730 coming in and it the deceleration 1013 00:41:59,890 --> 00:41:57,920 because the atmosphere gets thick really 1014 00:42:02,380 --> 00:41:59,900 fast so first of all 1015 00:42:04,809 --> 00:42:02,390 deceleration might kill you so you have 1016 00:42:07,450 --> 00:42:04,819 to very carefully enter Jupiter to keep 1017 00:42:09,970 --> 00:42:07,460 the acceleration level down and then 1018 00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:09,980 let's say you try to breathe the air 1019 00:42:15,069 --> 00:42:12,079 there's there's just no oxygen the 1020 00:42:16,509 --> 00:42:15,079 atmosphere is hydrogen and helium and I 1021 00:42:19,450 --> 00:42:16,519 guess the only good part about that is 1022 00:42:21,759 --> 00:42:19,460 that when you let out your last scream 1023 00:42:24,789 --> 00:42:21,769 it will be a nice high pitch like people 1024 00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:24,799 breathing the helium okay but that that 1025 00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:26,720 scream is going to last a while as you 1026 00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:29,599 fall down in Jupiter the air gets 1027 00:42:35,529 --> 00:42:32,720 thicker and thicker under the gravity on 1028 00:42:38,170 --> 00:42:35,539 Jupiter and eventually the air is as 1029 00:42:40,809 --> 00:42:38,180 thick as the areas on the earth as and 1030 00:42:43,390 --> 00:42:40,819 then it gets as thick as densest water 1031 00:42:47,650 --> 00:42:43,400 Wow so you just sort of float there a 1032 00:42:49,989 --> 00:42:47,660 bit and but if you were to plunge down 1033 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:49,999 even deeper into Jupiter that the 1034 00:42:53,559 --> 00:42:52,130 pressure begins to go up and just sort 1035 00:42:57,370 --> 00:42:53,569 of crushes you 1036 00:43:00,220 --> 00:42:57,380 and if you go down as far as the Galileo 1037 00:43:02,319 --> 00:43:00,230 probe went down you would be taken apart 1038 00:43:05,499 --> 00:43:02,329 into your component atoms by the 1039 00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:05,509 temperature but the cool part is the 1040 00:43:10,359 --> 00:43:07,910 best part of all is that the hydrogen 1041 00:43:13,359 --> 00:43:10,369 atoms in your body would join the 1042 00:43:16,930 --> 00:43:13,369 hydrogen atoms deep in Jupiter which we 1043 00:43:19,450 --> 00:43:16,940 believe are liquid metal hydrogen Wow 1044 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:19,460 and so you would join the liquid metal 1045 00:43:24,210 --> 00:43:21,650 hydrogen of Jupiter and so you might 1046 00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:24,220 imagine yourself and it's like the 1047 00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:27,200 villain in Terminator 2 you know the 1048 00:43:33,279 --> 00:43:30,319 metal guy is made of metal right you'd 1049 00:43:36,279 --> 00:43:33,289 be made of metal like that that would 1050 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:36,289 now that would be a very very 1051 00:43:41,799 --> 00:43:40,249 interesting way to die indeed no I won't 1052 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:41,809 go through too many more of the topics 1053 00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:43,210 because I don't want to spoil it for the 1054 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:45,200 everybody who's going to be reading this 1055 00:43:48,910 --> 00:43:47,450 book because it is fascinating and I 1056 00:43:51,069 --> 00:43:48,920 really and I keep getting back to this 1057 00:43:52,479 --> 00:43:51,079 the fact that it's in in bite-sized 1058 00:43:54,309 --> 00:43:52,489 chunks mean if you're on the the 1059 00:43:56,259 --> 00:43:54,319 commuting on the bus or the train or 1060 00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:56,269 whatever you can read a couple of 1061 00:43:59,440 --> 00:43:57,680 chapters on your way to work 1062 00:44:01,900 --> 00:43:59,450 it's you're not committed to to 1063 00:44:03,970 --> 00:44:01,910 continuing on and then you can move on 1064 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:03,980 to the next chapter what surprised you 1065 00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:05,930 when you were doing all the research for 1066 00:44:11,979 --> 00:44:08,960 all these interesting ways to die what 1067 00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:11,989 really shocked me was that as a 1068 00:44:17,489 --> 00:44:13,119 physicist 1069 00:44:19,710 --> 00:44:17,499 that magnetism can kill you and it turns 1070 00:44:22,109 --> 00:44:19,720 out that no magnet on earth can hurt you 1071 00:44:26,549 --> 00:44:22,119 I mean you can go into a magnetic field 1072 00:44:29,730 --> 00:44:26,559 and MRI machine which is we measure it 1073 00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:29,740 call it 2 Tesla and the Earth's magnetic 1074 00:44:33,690 --> 00:44:31,119 field that we live in all the time is 1075 00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:33,700 only 50 micro Tesla Wow 1076 00:44:37,769 --> 00:44:35,920 so it's a really strong magnetic field 1077 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:37,779 it does nothing you know people that 1078 00:44:43,019 --> 00:44:39,490 have gone into MRIs and come out they 1079 00:44:45,269 --> 00:44:43,029 come out again no change okay there's a 1080 00:44:48,180 --> 00:44:45,279 star out there in space called a 1081 00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:48,190 magnetar whoo and it's a neutron star 1082 00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:52,569 and it's magnetic field is a hundred 1083 00:45:03,950 --> 00:45:00,119 billion times stronger than a MRI so 1084 00:45:07,650 --> 00:45:03,960 that's such a strong magnetic field that 1085 00:45:09,809 --> 00:45:07,660 your atoms are actually made every 1086 00:45:12,839 --> 00:45:09,819 electron in your body as a magnet yeah 1087 00:45:15,269 --> 00:45:12,849 and with that strong a magnetic field it 1088 00:45:17,489 --> 00:45:15,279 takes over the motions of the electrons 1089 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:17,499 and the atoms and it stretches your 1090 00:45:22,410 --> 00:45:20,170 atoms into cigar shapes and then 1091 00:45:25,499 --> 00:45:22,420 stretches them into lines and then 1092 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:25,509 breaks every bond between the atoms in 1093 00:45:30,809 --> 00:45:28,210 your body so you become a gas Wow and 1094 00:45:32,910 --> 00:45:30,819 then it doesn't stop there rip the 1095 00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:32,920 electrons out of all the atoms in your 1096 00:45:41,999 --> 00:45:38,710 body so you become a human plasma your 1097 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:42,009 your plasma shaped like a human so I 1098 00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:44,890 thought if I'm gonna pick any way in the 1099 00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:47,230 book to die I'm gonna go to the magnetar 1100 00:45:53,279 --> 00:45:50,079 yes well and there there are a lot of 1101 00:45:55,529 --> 00:45:53,289 choices there are a lot of choices what 1102 00:45:56,970 --> 00:45:55,539 if you vacationed on Venus if you live 1103 00:45:59,609 --> 00:45:56,980 through a nuclear winter I guess it 1104 00:46:02,430 --> 00:45:59,619 that'd be pretty tough what if you were 1105 00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:02,440 caught in a human stampede the list goes 1106 00:46:07,289 --> 00:46:04,630 on and on and on folks the book is 1107 00:46:09,269 --> 00:46:07,299 called and then you're dead a scientific 1108 00:46:10,979 --> 00:46:09,279 exploration the world's most interesting 1109 00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:10,989 ways to die it's just been released this 1110 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:13,359 month by dr. Paul Doherty and Cody 1111 00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:16,210 Cassidy and I'll add a link to that book 1112 00:46:19,859 --> 00:46:17,710 in the show notes from the good people 1113 00:46:21,749 --> 00:46:19,869 of Allen an unknown well Paul thank you 1114 00:46:24,029 --> 00:46:21,759 very much for your time I really am 1115 00:46:25,799 --> 00:46:24,039 still enjoying this book I haven't 1116 00:46:26,690 --> 00:46:25,809 decided which interesting way I would 1117 00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:26,700 like to die 1118 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:31,680 I'll decide when I'm 92 a good a good 1119 00:46:37,630 --> 00:46:34,170 Tyson thanks for importing me to 1120 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:37,640 Australia and the sceptic zone 1121 00:46:51,410 --> 00:46:48,450 [Music] 1122 00:46:54,090 --> 00:46:51,420 exist you 1123 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:54,100 see a stock simply idiot hey Sal you 1124 00:46:57,540 --> 00:46:56,650 guys guys I just had the most amazing 1125 00:47:00,990 --> 00:46:57,550 experience 1126 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:01,000 been to the pub I told you not to hang 1127 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:03,010 out with mash you know she was blessed 1128 00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:05,290 by peter Popoff no Yellin I'm not 1129 00:47:10,290 --> 00:47:07,990 talking about psychics it was a really 1130 00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:10,300 SP experience now you have been to the 1131 00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:12,250 pub either that or you've been smoking 1132 00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:12,730 something 1133 00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:15,250 no punters the ESP is the European 1134 00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:17,710 sceptics podcast it's the most amazing 1135 00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:19,630 thing you get to know so much about 1136 00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:21,430 sceptics and their activities across 1137 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:24,400 Europe you know events hot topics and 1138 00:47:27,390 --> 00:47:26,170 interviews with lots of interesting 1139 00:47:29,130 --> 00:47:27,400 people oh wow cool 1140 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:29,140 by the way punters you just come into 1141 00:47:34,590 --> 00:47:31,570 the false dichotomy fallacy I guess that 1142 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:34,600 means I'm really wrong yep then you can 1143 00:47:38,250 --> 00:47:36,370 even learn about those fallacies in the 1144 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:38,260 show and hear about people spreading 1145 00:47:43,740 --> 00:47:40,570 silly ideas you should really check it 1146 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:43,750 out it's the ESP the European sceptics 1147 00:47:49,410 --> 00:47:47,410 podcast it's on every week all right so 1148 00:47:51,780 --> 00:47:49,420 where can I get this is the experience 1149 00:47:54,540 --> 00:47:51,790 it sounds good you can go online at the 1150 00:47:58,440 --> 00:47:54,550 ESP door to you follow it on twitter at 1151 00:48:00,510 --> 00:47:58,450 es podcast underscore EU or like the 1152 00:48:02,070 --> 00:48:00,520 podcast on Facebook oh and you can also 1153 00:48:07,650 --> 00:48:02,080 contact the show by sending them an 1154 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:07,660 email to info at the ESPE you and if you 1155 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:09,370 want to subscribe do a quick search for 1156 00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:12,010 the European skeptic podcast on 1157 00:48:20,210 --> 00:48:18,160 soundcloud iTunes or stitcher I don't 1158 00:48:23,060 --> 00:48:20,220 know I you can 1159 00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:23,070 Healy 1160 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:36,069 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1161 00:48:39,339 --> 00:48:36,770 zone now 1162 00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:39,349 fans of Maynard if you go to Maynard 1163 00:48:45,010 --> 00:48:42,079 Comte you and of course you know about 1164 00:48:46,750 --> 00:48:45,020 that site from his podcasts and bunga 1165 00:48:48,819 --> 00:48:46,760 bunga and planet Maynard and all that 1166 00:48:50,859 --> 00:48:48,829 sort of thing but you'll find links 1167 00:48:52,569 --> 00:48:50,869 there to some recent video work Maenads 1168 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:52,579 been doing and to let you know that 1169 00:48:58,030 --> 00:48:55,010 Maynard is the perfect frontman for 1170 00:49:00,819 --> 00:48:58,040 videos if you need somebody to be at 1171 00:49:03,099 --> 00:49:00,829 your function your location your media 1172 00:49:05,859 --> 00:49:03,109 event to interview the stars to 1173 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:05,869 interview the people whoever you wish 1174 00:49:11,740 --> 00:49:08,450 Maynard is your man he specializes in 1175 00:49:14,650 --> 00:49:11,750 red carpet interviews or interviews in 1176 00:49:16,540 --> 00:49:14,660 general and he's great doing audio 1177 00:49:20,620 --> 00:49:16,550 reports as you know listening to the 1178 00:49:22,810 --> 00:49:20,630 skeptic zone or video reports he's the 1179 00:49:25,329 --> 00:49:22,820 man for you more information if you're 1180 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:25,339 interested in using Maynard if you live 1181 00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:28,490 in the Sydney area may not come today 1182 00:49:33,220 --> 00:49:31,369 you check out his work and drop him a 1183 00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:33,230 line if you'd like to engage his 1184 00:49:37,950 --> 00:49:35,599 services he's one of the best and he's 1185 00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:37,960 been one of the best since the 1980s and 1186 00:49:42,849 --> 00:49:41,089 we are very lucky indeed to have Maynard 1187 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:42,859 a part of the sceptic zone now for many 1188 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:45,890 years coming up on next week's show I'm 1189 00:49:49,569 --> 00:49:48,410 gonna do a call out to my reporter 1190 00:49:57,460 --> 00:49:49,579 reporters 1191 00:50:00,490 --> 00:49:57,470 mm-hmm I hope I hope to have an 1192 00:50:01,900 --> 00:50:00,500 interview or a segment or a report or 1193 00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:01,910 something from one of my wonderful 1194 00:50:07,329 --> 00:50:04,160 reporters who do who do such a great job 1195 00:50:09,010 --> 00:50:07,339 all of them all of them and we miss them 1196 00:50:10,510 --> 00:50:09,020 we miss them when they're not part of 1197 00:50:14,020 --> 00:50:10,520 the show so hopefully next week we'll 1198 00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:14,030 have a a report from a reporter that 1199 00:50:17,140 --> 00:50:14,960 would be nice 1200 00:50:20,349 --> 00:50:17,150 but for this week at least this is 1201 00:50:26,859 --> 00:50:20,359 Richard Saunders signing off from a very 1202 00:50:33,079 --> 00:50:29,270 you've been listening to the skeptic 1203 00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:33,089 zone podcast visit our website at WWF 1204 00:50:39,650 --> 00:50:36,000 eggs on TV for contacts an archive of 1205 00:50:42,559 --> 00:50:39,660 all episodes since 2008 and our online 1206 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:42,569 store please support the skeptic zone by 1207 00:50:48,290 --> 00:50:45,290 following us on Twitter at skeptic zone 1208 00:50:51,319 --> 00:50:48,300 liking us on Facebook and leaving a 1209 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:51,329 review on iTunes you can also show your 1210 00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:54,210 support by subscribing via PayPal for as 1211 00:51:00,020 --> 00:50:57,690 little as 99 cents a week the skeptic 1212 00:51:01,819 --> 00:51:00,030 zone is an independent production the 1213 00:51:03,950 --> 00:51:01,829 views and opinions expressed on the 1214 00:51:06,490 --> 00:51:03,960 skeptic zone and not necessarily those 1215 00:51:16,940 --> 00:51:06,500 of Australian skeptic tea or any other 1216 00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:16,950 skeptical organisation to the good 1217 00:51:22,849 --> 00:51:19,200 thinking newsletter and it comes into my 1218 00:51:25,609 --> 00:51:22,859 inbox regularly and I just have to pause 1219 00:51:28,190 --> 00:51:25,619 Marsh there's a plane coming yeah that's 1220 00:51:31,010 --> 00:51:28,200 not a problem that's my it's my turn to 1221 00:51:32,359 --> 00:51:31,020 be on the flight path and I can tell you 1222 00:51:37,010 --> 00:51:32,369 because I've got my flight radar 1223 00:51:38,450 --> 00:51:37,020 tracking wow that's wow okay so you keep 1224 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:38,460 that open to track it as the medical 1225 00:51:41,569 --> 00:51:40,170 officer doesn't get surprised by well I 1226 00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:41,579 got surprised by this one cuz I was 1227 00:51:47,150 --> 00:51:43,710 looking at your website that's a Sydney 1228 00:51:53,420 --> 00:51:47,160 to Adelaide flight right now going over